Routed - almost - by two guys -
David Baillie & Gordon Arnaut “win”
G. S.  <georgeisalzman@yahoo.com>
initial posting 26 Aug 2010 - last update 27 Aug 2010

URL: http://site.www.umb.edu/faculty/salzman_g/t/2010-08-26.htm

      Yesterday, 25 Aug, my effort to participate in a dialogue of three people with ideological positions in strong contradiction with each other collapsed. My last minute effort to keep it going failed. Gordon, an intellectually much-too-casual man with a too-short fuse, became enraged at David, who then made it unequivocally clear that he is a rabid Jew-hater and, his denials notwithstanding, a rabble-rousing virulent Nazi to boot. My enthusiasm of the previous two days for our “dialogue” evaporated in a flash, temporarily I hope.

A glimpse of the explosion
      After many e-mails, in the course of which David had said he would post my essay on his site, he wrote me in part,

Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 10:40:30 -0400
CC: Gordon Arnaut <goarnaut@yahoo.com>, Ramor Ryan <ramorx@gmail.com>, Manuel Garcia <mango@idiom.com>

      I have the page created, today I intend to officially post it. I have been too busy trying to make ends meet to stay on top of it on a daily basis. I would LOVE to have time to be near my laptop all day long. Sadly, I was driven out of high tech by the use of Hindus and overseas business migration (2001) and went back to contracting, only to find that I am screwed in this profession by all of the illegal Brazilians that have been brought in.

      You and Gordon have this idea that I am a racist because I take a stand on the illegal situation. First of all, I am NOT a racist, I am a racialist, meaning that I love my own people as I am sure other races love their own . . . In our current PC culture every other race gets to be nationalist and ethnocentric, EXCEPT mine. But this illegal problem is a race issue as far as THEY make it a race issue, such as La Raza. For me it is an economic issue. I have NOWHERE to go except pumping gas in this economy thanks to these (primarily) Brazilians and the pond scum contractors who use them and line their own pockets with the money they save by using them . . . The illegals come up here and work for $10/hr, living 8 to an apartment for a couple years while sending the bulk of their money back home. I can't compete with that.

      I befriended one such fellow named Fernando who is a very decent guy with a wife and two children. Very hard worker, no bullshit, like the other 3 or 4 who were lazy and incompetent . . . another Greek contractor . . . uses illegals all the time, has tons of money stashed away he doesn't report. Hundreds of thousands. One of his workers took a fall a couple years ago and ended up in a coma. The bastard Greek acted as if he didn't know the guy. No insurance, no workers comp. No nothing . . . This system is disgusting all around. For me, for my family, for the illegals . . . That is why when I see Gordon or you or anyone defending them, I have to retch. I have nothing against them personally, the system they are a part of is destroying MY life in MY country. I am actually madder at the assholes who hire them . . . a Vietnamese friend who works in a high tech fabrication company (again, a Norwegian using the cheapest labor he can get with facilities overseas) also works as a carpenter. The Vietnamese use him, never me, and the Whites in my own neighborhood use him as well. He is cheaper, he can afford it as he has a stable factory job as a base. I don’t think you guys have actually ever been in the trenches. George, you were in academia. I know your type . . . You do not have any real experience with having your livelihood hanging on a thread daily, now do you?

      . . . I have a . . . list of people who like us [who] know that there is SOMETHING very wrong, who may not all agree on who is running the show . . . Some are in intelligence, some are media people. [I named you] merely to point out that there ARE people with whom I and maybe they disagree on some issues, BUT do understand that we all share some common ground, i.e. Capitalism and Zionism. We . . . disagree on Stalin and Hitler . . . were the Germans wrong to try and create a haven for their own people? I think not. I think the world would be a better place if they had won. It would have stopped the expansion and coalescence of Capitalism and Communism in their tracks which is a truly totalitarian consumerist mindless soulless pop culture horror . . . a VERY VERY nasty future . . . is coming, one we should ALL take very seriously.

      As for . . . irrelevant data. I do not believe any data I send is irrelevant to understanding the history that has created the present. Perhaps physicists have a different view on data. I have been studying quantum theory and am edging my son towards the path of physics, and I hope MIT, in 10 years. So I hope the scientific method is not dead . . . YET. --David Baillie


      That was a badly hurting David around midnight of 22nd-23rd August 2010, obviously fully aware that he was being targetted for brutal economic exploitation. But, mistakenly seeing as his “enemies” the other impoverished workers who are being pitted against him in competition for the few lousy jobs available. He’s not one to mince words, always perceptive about his immediate tormenters, and incisive about a great deal. I share his contempt for the vast majority of American academics (i.e. the established ones, not the army of today’s temps) who, as he surmises about me, were not “actually in the trenches”. Then he let’s me have it, “I know your type . . . You do not have any real experience with having your livelihood hanging on a thread daily, now do you?” Part on target, part off. It’s true that there hasn’t been a day of my life when I went hungry and worried about where the next meal would come from. Even as a maverick forever in conflict with university administrators, I ended my half-century in academia with a retirement pension more than adequate to be comfortable. [1] At any rate, David tried to pigenohole me in the slot with the Jewish Zionist Communist Capitalist scum he so detests. It’s as stupid when he does it as when self-declared “leftists” pigeonhole other people, people with whom they not infrequently have large areas of agreement but disagree about some point or other. It’s just a lot easier to fling shit at someone than to try to sort out the differences in understanding and, God forbid!, change your mind.
      In spite of the unpleasantness of David’s midnight note, I was nevertheless very glad that he was going to post my essay on his site, and I sent out the following announcement to my [noaap] listserv subscribers:


Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 21:40:51 -0500
To: Notes of an Anarchist Physicist <noaap@lists.riseup.net>, Gordon Arnaut <goarnaut@yahoo.com>, David Baillie <davidbaillie@comcast.net>
Subject: [noaap] A breakthrough

Oaxaca, Mexico, Monday 23 August 2010
      For me, it's one Giant Step. Today my essay, Changing History - 1 was posted on a website where I thought I’d never see any thing of mine. The site editor, David Baillie, identifies himself as a “racialist”, not a “racist”, and a “White man”. There’s a large area of disagreement between us, and also one of agreement. For starters, David believes there are distinct “races” with distinct social behaviors that are genetically determined. His website attracts people who hate Blacks and “foreigners”, and of course plenty of Jew haters. He posts a lot of material that I find repugnant and totally unjustified.
      However, David is one of the majority of the “poor Whites” – Joe Bageant’s “Working ‘Rednecks’ if he were in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia” – who’s being impoverished by the big-money interests. The difference is that David knows it and is furiously angry at the system that is exploiting him. But, like Joe’s ‘Rednecks’, David doesn’t understand that it’s not the foreigners that are the guilty party, but the dominant capitalist interests that pit poor workers against each other. So, like Joe’s people, David is pissed at people like me and “the Jews” who they see as at the heart of the destruction of the America they thought they knew.
      David of course is a human being, as are Joe’s people. So I’m very glad to be able to open some exchange of ideas with him, and hopefully through his website, with some other non-Jewish Americans.
      My essay on David’s website is at
http://www.nemw.net/articles/2010august/georgesalzman.html
      It is also on my website with photos, in a slightly updated version, at
http://site.www.umb.edu/faculty/salzman_g/t/2009-09-05.htm


All comments and criticisms are welcome.  <george.salzman@umb.edu>

      If you know folks who want to ‘save the world’, starting with global open communication — no censorship, I’ll be glad to add them to my Notes of an anarchist physicist listserv [noaap]. To subscribe write me, including your first and last names, please, or send a blank e-mail to noaap-subscribe@lists.riseup.net.
Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 11:17:07 pm
Cc: Gordon Arnaut <goarnaut@yahoo.com>, Ramor Ryan <ramorx@gmail.com>, Manuel Garcia <mango@idiom.com>

      Hi David. You spurred me to re-examine my essay that you said you were about to post. It’s interesting (at least to me) that my views have somewhat altered since I originally wrote it back in early 2006. For example, at that time I thought highly of Uri Avnery, one of the minority of Israeli Jewish Zionists who wants the Palestinians to be treated humanely. But I now realize that maintaining a Jewish state in Palestine is wrong, regardless of how the conquered indigenous inhabitants are treated, and Avnery is not ready to consider giving back all the “fruit” of the military victories, in particular the maintenance of the Zionist state of Israel. Of course, what he wishes for (I believe vainly) is the establishment of two states, a Jewish state and a Palestinian state, with decent lives for all the people, admittedly a vast improvement over what exists and what threatens.

      Another change in my thinking came with the realization that it’s not adequate to frame everything in the Middle East in terms of Jews vs. Muslims/Palestinians. The much larger struggle is the “Western” effort to maintain its “victory” in vanquishing the Ottoman Empire. I think it’s true that I accepted the full-blown Holocaust when I wrote that essay, to a greater extent than I do now, and placed responsibility too largely exclusively on Hitler’s shoulders. But the issue for me is not whether Germany under Hitler and its allies were responsible for 6 million Jewish deaths or 5.5 million, which Raul Hilberg attributes to them,[2] or even to “only” 1 million. The fact that people were segregated according to their ethnicity, that they were forced to wear identifying badges (the yellow star of David), and to live in ghettos, and perform forced labor, and so on, that is already sufficient grounds for me to condemn the Third Reich. It’s disgusting to me that the Zionist slobs busy trying to justify the conquest of the Palestinians are trying to use Nazi (yes, I use that term advisedly) atrocities, and to exaggerate them for the purpose, but that doesn’t exonerate the rulers of the Third Reich from their responsibility for the terrible mistreatment of European Jews, and plenty of other groups. I concur with your condemnation of Winston Churchill, and of the slaughter of “innocents” in Dresden, and so, incidentally does the good Irish correspondent and historian Robert Fisk.

      I realize that I'm jumping around here. I also have plenty of contempt for the Bolsheviks, and for the American rulers, including Franklin D. Roosevelt. I think he did his damnest to get the U.S. into WWII, and not because he was in love with Brother Joe. From what I’ve read it was Hitler’s determination to take Stalingrad that basically broke the back of the Reichwehr. Yes, you’re being screwed, you and the majority of everyday Americans. It’s true as you surmised, “George, you were in academia. I know your type . . . You do not have any real experience with having your livelihood hanging on a thread daily, now do you?” I know damn well that I am one of the privileged people, one of the relatively well-off Americans who benefits from the fascist state, someone who the police thugs protect from having poor people help themselves to any of the wealth I control. But you’re venting in the wrong directions because you’re deluded into seeing the other poor people whose lives are also hanging by threads as your “enemies”. People forced to complete with you and others for a few crumbs. For the moment that’s it. I've made a few small changes in my essay, which is at http://site.www.umb.edu/faculty/salzman_g/t/2009-09-05.htm . All the best, sincerely, --George


Sent: Mon, August 23, 2010 8:07:02 am
From: Gordon Arnaut <goarnaut@yahoo.com>
Cc: Ramor Ryan <ramorx@gmail.com>, Manuel Garcia <mango@idiom.com>

      Hi George, I am glad that this conversation is moving in a converging direction from all sides. I have to just ask you, what will happen to those people who were born in Israel and may be second or third generation or more? They feel “indigenous” just like David does, and with some rationale in either case. You can’t just pack up the 5 million Jews in Israel and ship them somewhere, that is not right either. A two state solution based on the pre-1967 boundaries would be a very good start. I don’t think Avnery or Chomsky or Rabbi Lerner for that matter are to be condemned for championing that. The refugee question and right of return would need to be addressed, but that is a much harder question. As far as the illegal settlements go, they would have to go, unequivocally. The other big issue you mentioned is the Holocaust and the numbers. Until very recently I believed that the number 6 million was absolutely sacrosanct and precise. (Also the number 1 million Serbs).

      However, it was one single piece of writing that has caused me to open my mind just a tiny bit and that was the piece circulated by Shamir which I believe I forwarded to you. Written by an Ashkenazim, but citing all the usual “Holocaust denier” sources, Weber, Zundel et al, which made me dismiss it at first. But still it left an impression. Why? Because of one fact the author mentions — that the official Holocaust numbers for Auschwitz have indeed been revised downward several times over the years. Now I think most people tend to react the same way when someone is changing their story, and that is to begin to doubt. And once you begin to open your mind to a different possibility you start thinking about several things, like the victors get to write history, the West is lying constantly to its people, and so on.

      Another thing that got me thinking was the fact that Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadi-Najad, who I greatly respect and admire, has been calling, in a thoughtful way, for serious scholarship on the Holocaust. Now I don’t think Mr. Ahmadi-Najad is such a fool to go somewhere that is a dead end. I think he has looked at this issue seriously and has seen some holes in the “official” story. Of course I have not changed my mind on the core issue of the Holocaust, which was to lead away innocent people for no reason other than their religion or ethnicity (in the case of Serbs). There was indeed an official policy of extermination of Jews (and Serbs in the Croatian puppet state), that cannot be denied. Hitler was a megalomaniac, that cannot be sugarcoated either. But I believe the ruling class in the West has sought to indoctrinate the people with a distorted view of this historical figure precisely because he was a man of the people and stood against control of the state by the traditional elites. He was an outsider in every sense of the word, and for that his name is dirt among the trans-border elites who have been in control of power in both our side and theirs.

      Churchill was a despicable figure even worse than Hitler in my opinion. FDR was a notorious prevaricator who fabricated whole-cloth the reality of US politics with the deftness of a carpetbagger. Both were stooges of the elite, in the richest tradition. I think you are wrong to condemn Bolshevism. It was a clean break from the corrupt and immoral elites who hold the reins of power to this day. The so-called millions of “victims” of Bolshevism is the stuff of fantasy and indoctrination. Here is an example. We all know that millions of Russians, mainly Ukrainians, were supposed to have perished in the famine of the 1930s. In Ukraine they are calling that the “Holodomor,” the great hunger. Do a quick search and see what comes up. The numbers given are about eight to 12 million victims. But how many books have been written and how much history has been taught to schoolchildren in the USA about the US famine of the Great Depression. Huh? US famine? Never heard of it? Yes, this real event claimed the lives of seven million Americans, according to a Russian demographer who used US census data for his analysis. Just type “US famine” into a search query and you will come up with the story, which was not even mentioned in our “free” press.

      I asked myself could this be true? I went to Wikipedia for US population figures. Here is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_
States
. Look at the chart that gives population and growth by decade, from 1790, right to 2010. This is all you need to determine if there was a famine in the US in the 1930s, in which millions of people died. Look at the population growth numbers by decade. Throughout the 1800s it was over 30 percent in each decade, except 1860 to 1870, which was the Civil War years. In this decade the population growth suddenly dropped to 22 percent, from 35 percent the previous decade. Obviously something terrible happened during this decade, just by looking at the numbers of people alive in the country. Now in the very next decade, the growth jumps right back up to 28 percent. From 1890 until 1930 the growth continues very briskly in absolute terms. For example in the decade from 1890 to 1900 we see that the population has increased by more than 14 million. Each successive decade sees this absolute growth number increase, decade-over-decade. By 1920 to 1930, the increase was 24 million people!

      Then look what happens in the decade 1930 to 1940. the growth rate plummets, from 24 million people to just 9 million! The very first, and only, time in US history that the decade by decade growth has decreased. Even in the civil war decade, the absolute population increase was almost the same as in the previous decade, about 8 million. In fact the civil war decade was the last decade prior to the 1930s that the population grew by the singe digits, in millions. One does not need to be a demographer or historian to realize there was a calamity during this decade that wiped out millions of lives. But where is this history acknowledged? It has been wiped off the memory banks so thoroughly that it makes one’s head spin. Why? Because these truths are not in the interest of indoctrinating the people with a fantasy view of the world, where Stalin starved his own people while the “free” US cared for the average working man and did everything to help him. Their evil versus our good. Where in fact the real story is that the famine of the 1930s was a global event brought on by the machinations of the global elite.

      Stalin moved quickly and decisively to eradicate these parasites on the soil of the Soviet Union and did so very neatly, for which I greatly admire him. This accomplishment stands as one of the great social accomplishments in history in my opinion. Even non-admirers like Prof Hudson have acknowledged Stalin’s masterful job of eliminating the poisonous rentier class. And that’s what brings me back to David. His complaints are very true and real and the very source is that same rentier class that has been allowed to not only prosper here, but to take over. Unfortunately he rails against “communism,” not having a balanced or even informed view of the history. But we do agree that we must remove the rentier class once and for all. And for that we need a man like Uncle Joe, simple as that. Another Hitler is not going to do it. Best, --Gordon.


Sent: Mon, August 23, 2010 7:11:03 PM
From: David Baillie <davidbaillie@comcast.net>

      I’m not at liberty to read and react to everything you’ve written here Gordon. A quick glance down the page gave me the impression that you are still clinging to at least some of the war propaganda. We can tackle THAT another day, suffice it to say that at least you do acknowledge that the “official” numbers have been creeping down regardless of your “beliefs”, and yet, even after the release of German records taken at Auschwitz by the Russians in the 90’s, which do cite 74,000 deaths, mainly by natural causes, the plaque being changed to 1.5 million (still a false number) total people from 4 million, the Holocaust religion still uses the number 6 million. Someone’s lying and it sure isn’t the Germans. As I said, I really don’t have the time or inclination to get into that issue.

      What I wanted to reply to was the issue of moving Israelis. Absolutely, they must be moved, Israel dismantled and those nukes they possess destroyed. Say what you will, I DO NOT TRUST THEM and their Samson Option bullshit. There are Jews all over the world, Jews could never be wiped out being as spread afield as they are and that is a load of rubbish. If all the Jews in the world moved to Israel, such a thing could happen, but not dispersed, it is illogical at its core. There is most definitely a place for them, and Gordon, you will be happy to know that it was provided by your Uncle Joe. Birobidjan. It is the best choice. No one has to fight wars over it, it is tucked away between Russia and China, and given that Ashke“nazi” Jews are primarily from the Caspian Sea area, it is as close to their real ancestral home as they can be, is it not? I’m good with that. :-)

      Darn it, I glanced at your final paragraphs!!!!! Now I have to respond. We still disagree on who would be the better eliminator of scum. I’d take Hitler any day and once you get a real dose of reality about the Third Reich you may eventually agree. I could never accept Stalin for many reasons, especially my own family being victimized by those Communist bastards. What IS interesting is that he was poisoned, and most likely by his third Jewish wife. So at least towards the end of his reign he ticked somebody off. Apparently he went rogue on his benefactors and went “anti-Semitic”, apparently deciding he really should be in charge. Perhaps it was Stalin who overreached, not Hitler, eh, Gordon? It took Fortress Americana, Great Britain and the USSR to take down the mighty and noble Germany. It took one back-stabbing little (Jewish) bitch a little pillow talk and a deadly nightcap to finish Stalin. :-) To bad Monica Lewinsky didn’t try a little harder, the Mossad is getting soft. What a charade that was, with Joe Lieberman playing along to boot.

      Did you ever see the HR 1955 hearings held by Jane Harmon, that Zionist scumbag from California? All Jews, save one token Black. A very interesting farce designed to censor the Internet. This is a video so it will take some time to load enough to watch smoothly. Or how about the NPR debate about censoring US news about Israel? Sulamit Reinhartz is a real bitch, I am now only too happy I did not go to Brandeis. Check out the first bozo who describes himself as a Holocaust SCHOLAR. He is so feeble-minded, he does not understand allegory when he reads it. Apparently no Gentiles allowed, save Tom Ashbrook, is he really a Gentile? I don’t care soft Zionists like Lerner either. This soft/hard approach has been going on for decades. I am sick and tired of being jerked off by Zionists of any stripe and that is what this kind of Jew debating Jew thing is. A circle jerk. Meanwhile, the Israelis steal and kill more and more while people wring their hands and kibitz or nosh or whatever Yiddish word is most appropriate. Check out this piece of shit, Norman Podhoretz. This is exactly why I don’t want ANY Jew in a position of power in this country. (Sorry, George).


Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:35:14 -0500
Subject: Trying to cool it
CC: Israel Shamir <adam@israelshamir.net>, Ken Freeland <diogenesquest@gmail.com>

Oaxaca, Mexico, Tuesday 24 August 2010
      Hi Gordon and David, I wish I had not been so tired last night when I wrote the note below and neglected to also contact you then, Gordon. The truth is that I thought today would be soon enough. You know, Gordon, that I consider you one of my very best friends, a man of impeccable honesty from whom I’ve learned a great deal. You also have a sense of propriety that is surely extremely rare among we “Westernized” peoples. The “problem”, as I see it, is that you expect everyone else with whom you are in close contact to act with propriety equal to yours. Quite obviously David shifts back and forth, depending on his task of the moment. Thus, when he’s at work on stuff to fire up the race-hatreds of what I assume are the majority of his readers, he sets aside ethical standards and is ready to cull absolute garbage from anywhere — including the Lyndon LaRouche denial that climate warming is real, not just a (Jew-governed) ruling class scare calling for nuclear reactors. He buys into the part of the ruling-class propaganda that advocates technological solutions for social problems, even dreaming of getting his son into the Massachusetts Institute of Technology as a student.

      I remember when some misanthrope who Israel Shamir was in contact with insulted you and you challenged him to a duel, which he of course ignored. Israel acted badly towards you then, I remember, regarding the loss of your family members in the mass killings of Serbs and others by Croatian Nazis. He said he wasn’t interested in your personal loss. I had meant to write you and him then, and to criticize him for his indifference, but of course I never got around to it. Israel is an altogether different can of contradictions. Unlike David, he just doesn’t give a shit (about “minor offenses to others”), as he jets around the globe from one event to another enjoying his privileges. But I don’t think he intends to be personally mean or hurtful — he’s just too involved having fun to worry about the details of civility. Ken Freeland, who must be his website manager, is a much more solid person in regard to how he treats other people, judging from his intervention at the time you were ready to duel. Israel just didn’t want to be bothered. I guess the point I seem to be making is that each person is unique, and we can learn some things from everyone, or nearly everyone. By the way, David, you never did get back to the ethnic “cleansing” by the Croatian Nazis, which I recall you said you would comment on. I know you’re overloaded and struggling to keep afloat. So that’s why I’m especially glad you did manage to get the text of my essay posted on your site. Sincerely, and with best wishes to each of you, --George

      The above e-mail followed a brief exchange David and I had had about midnight, namely
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 22:13:49 -0500
To: David Baillie <davidbaillie@comcast.net>

-----David Baillie wrote:-----
      You are a very good propagandist, George. :-)

      People with un-American agendas are controlling our government and many others. We do not endorse violence or hatred, we wish only to take the keys to the bus away from them. Once they are rendered powerless we hope that human decency can be restored to all nations. Best Regards, --David Baillie
----------
      Thanks David. It takes a lot of effort. Sometimes I'm really pissed and I have to wait until I cool off and think what I really want to say. It's so much easier to just say something nasty. Of course if it's someone like the neocons who are pumping for war I let them have it. I'm hopeful that you and Gordon and I can hold things together and reach other non-Jewish Americans. Take care, all the best, --George


      An increasingly angry exchange between David and Gordon developed in late night of the 23rd-24th. Here’s a bit of it.

Sent: Tue, August 24, 2010 12:11:52 am
From: David Baillie <davidbaillie@comcast.net>
To: Gordon Arnaut <goarnaut@yahoo.com>

      I’ll tell you what, Gordon. If we are going to converse, then we are going to let it out whichever way it comes out. I do not think I said anything particularly “anti-Semitic” and George thus far has not said he felt offended. He did respond rather harshly to something I said a week ago, and even he said afterward that his response was hasty. So if George had felt offended he would have said so. You, on the other hand, are awfully quick to fly off the handle, especially “on behalf” of others, especially Jews and/or Communists. Very knee jerk reactionary it seems. I am not a PC person, then again, I am not a Stalinist, from whence political correctness comes. If you are going to fly off the handle every time you feel offended, how can you communicate with anyone but yourself?

      George just sent out an email blast that characterized me in a very unflattering AND fairly inaccurate way, but you don’t see me running off and crying about it. It is propaganda. I hope that his tactics do get his crowd out of their little world views. Most people are sitting in front of their TVs sucking up the bullshit on Fox, CNN and MSNBC and believe every word of it. I could hang around with my own crowd, bitching about Zionists and the Liberal Jews that are fucking up (in my estimation) our political system and what passes as a social order, but that is preaching to the choir. If I don’t go out on a limb and talk to you guys and you won’t talk to me, the scum at the top have succeeded in their desire to keep us where they want us. Forget the tea, have a couple of beers.


Sent: Tue, August 24, 2010 8:40:57 am
From: David Baillie <davidbaillie@comcast.net>
To: gordon arnaut <goarnaut@yahoo.com>
Cc: George Salzman <george.salzman@umb.edu>

      Now you are being an extremist beyond all measure of reason. I did not say that I wanted to wipe out Jews. The Zionist movement is based on the preposterous belief that there ARE people who want to wipe out Jews, hence the interminable and insufferable regurgitation of the Holohoax (see the media Jews and their vilification of Iran). I am pointing out that if it were the case that there are such people, it would serve their purposes for all Jews to move to one place. DUH!!!!
      Get a grip Gordon, get a grip. You are the one making semantic distortions by convoluting what I said with your “belief” that it is my intention to harm Jews. I’ve posted articles in the past stating that my position on the average non-Israeli Jews is that it would be in their best interests to disassociate themselves from Zionism because it WILL absolutely make their lives dangerous. Not because of me, but because the average American is waking up to the Neocon/Jewish/Israeli foreign policy issues and the control of our government by these vermin. I am trying to WARN Jews. As is Gordon Duff, as is Brother Nathaniel, as is Gilad Atzmon, as is Professor Sabrosky. All born Jews.

      As I said, I think you are blinded by some reflexive issues toward your own upbringing that puts you beyond using your intellect when certain words like Jew are used. George is a Jew is he not? He identifies himself as such. Is it an insult if I say he is a Jew then? If I had used a derogatory term (I will not repeat them here) then I would admit to being insulting, but I haven’t. As for the post on NOAA: I plainly pointed out the fact that George posted some propaganda to draw readers. He admitted as much himself. If there is some mental illness going on here it is your own. You are an over the top reactionary. Let George speak for himself, he is a grown man. I would also suggest toning down your threats of physical violence towards me, are you a “Nazi”? Of course not, you are a Communist, and Communists are butchers. It proves my point that it is people on YOUR side of the aisle that make it impossible to have an open debate or even be reasonable. I think George should more closely examine his ties to you and your mindset. From my perspective you fall into the category of the “useful Idiots” that served the Bolsheviks, and George runs the risk of being a shining example of a Jew who promotes the use of such people to attain their political ends. Hence, confirming MY “Nazi” positions.


Date: Aug 24, 2010, at 9:46 am
From: Gordon Arnaut <goarnaut@yahoo.com>
To: David Baillie <davidbaillie@comcast.net>

      You are a complete liar and idiot, Sir. I did not threaten you with physical harm, nor even challenged you to an honorable duel, which would be my next step. As for wiping out Jews, merely bringing up such a topic, in the way you did, is ample proof of disgusting hate in your heart. Is wiping out a group of real, living human beings the stuff of honorable discourse? If you think that then you are sick, like your idiot-child Hitler. I am glad to have seen your real stripes. Now I see that I have veered too far in my criticism of Israeli policies. I see now that there is a lot of truth behind their actions on the basis of self-defense.

      I live on a farm and two of my three neighbors rail constantly against Jews. The third is the worst racist of all, although he is fixated mainly on the Indians and immigrants. I have told George many times that you cannot shake a stick without hitting one of these racists in our society. So yeah, I think it is good that the Jews have influence in our government. What would happen otherwise? I see now that the far worse outcome would be to side with idiots like you and my neighbors and let your view prevail. That's it for me. Even if you apologize now, I do not want to engage with you any more. Good Riddance, --Gordon Arnaut.


Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 21:06:43 -0400
From: David Baillie <davidbaillie@comcast.net>
To: Gordon Arnaut <goarnaut@yahoo.com>

      Now I am convinced that you are a stark raving lunatic, Gordon. You twice mentioned physical attack on my person. Actually, I believe it was you who threatened me a month ago as well. The reason I brought up “wiping out Jews” is because that is the JEWISH excuse for stealing Palestine for themselves. Gordon, you are just full of hatred, period. So full of hatred that you distort everything I say to fit your twisted worldview, which of course, George eggs on. I expect that from George, he is after all a Jew. That’s what Jews have always been known for. Instigation. You are a tool. A mindless cudgel to be used and discarded. Read up on how the few goy in the Bolshevik Revolution were treated once Lev Bronstein (Trotsky) and Lenin had no more use for them. A bullet to the back of the head. Wet work as Kaganovich referred to it.

      Now I’ll say something REALLY offensive in DEFENSE of Zionism. Not the farce of stealing Palestine, but of all Jews gathering in one place. Personally, I would LOVE to send ALL Jews to somewhere far, far away from the rest of humanity. In fact, I would love if you and the rest of your fucked up ilk went along, too, Gordon. You all would no doubt kill each other soon enough, especially once your Jewish masters starting treating you like the goy you are. After all, they wouldn’t need you to front for them anymore and you would be relegated to cattle status. Then once you were disposed of, they would turn on each other. So you see, I don’t have any desire to harm Jews at all. I just want them AND you isolated in a place where you can fuck with each other and leave the rest of us alone. George, I’ve got to hand it to you, you Jews now how to pick the real fruit loops to do your dirty work for you. Either that or you ARE Gordon and he is your alter ego. It wouldn’t surprise me.


Sent: Fri, August 27, 2010 5:07:27 am
Cc: Ramor Ryan <ramorx@gmail.com>, Manuel Garcia <mango@idiom.com>, Joe Bageant <bageantjb@aim.com>, Ken Freeland <diogenesquest@gmail.com>, Israel Shamir <adam@israelshamir.net>
Subject: Next posting reporting our exchange

      Hi David and Gordon, I’ve prepared another report on our ongoing efforts, which I’d like to announce to my listserv, but before I do that it would be best to be certain that I haven’t been unfair to either of you in what I’ve written. I’m ready to make changes and to add material (I know it’s incomplete). So, if you could take a few minutes to look at it and let me know your thoughts that would be great.
      Up to now, David, I haven’t got any communications from your readers, only from the people on my [noaap] listserv. I would have thought some of them, after doing a double take, would light into me. I’m fairly certain that when I put stuff up on my site it’s not very widely read, and I’m wondering if you have an idea if people read yours.
      Thanks to each of you for your patience. All best wishes, --George

Routed — almost — by two guys —
David Baillie & Gordon Arnaut “win”

URL: http://site.www.umb.edu/faculty/salzman_g/t/2010-08-26.htm

Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 04:50:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gordon Arnaut <goarnaut@yahoo.com>

      I enjoy your thoughts as always. I don’t mind being called an intellectual lightweight — that’s how I think of myself too. Intellectuality is not that high on my list. I admire men of action. Besides Uncle Joe, my number one hero is my late, great–uncle Milos, a Serb who was captured by the Nazis, escaped and made his way to Russia, was taught to fly and became a fighter ace, with ten victories against the Luftwaffe. He earned the highest distinction, Hero of the Soviet Union. I never knew him, he died before I made my first visit to the ancestral homeland of Vojvodina — a place of much innocent bloodshed over the centuries. In fact I knew very little of this history until very recently because my parents were religious fanatics who cared nothing about our roots. Even among the rotten imperialists I have a respect for honorable warriors, especially airmen, who conducted themselves with valor and gallantry unknown among the ground-bound services. It was never seen to strafe a bailed opponent while parachuting to the ground, and often he would get a salute from the man who shot out his mount. Best, --Gordon.


Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:14:31 -0400
From: David Baillie <davidbaillie@comcast.net>
CC: Gordon Arnaut <goarnaut@yahoo.com>, Ramor Ryan <ramorx@gmail.com>, Manuel Garcia <mango@idiom.com>, Joe Bageant <bageantjb@aim.com>, Ken Freeland <diogenesquest@gmail.com>, Israel Shamir <adam@israelshamir.net>

      Well, George, you do take the info and make of it what you will and I doubt that you will moderate YOUR characterization. Your comments based on my email regarding illegal immigration and the economic conditions here are somewhat off base, not entirely, but somewhat. I am not sure if it is your spin or just assumptions you make without digging any deeper. I don’t really see that anyone would assume I am a rabble rouser or Jew hater from said email either. Preposterous anyhow, as I am not a “Jew-hater”, in fact, one of my Jewish customers recently called me a “mensch” as I didn’t charge him my usual rate because the work I did for him didn’t really warrant charging a carpenter’s price.

      Be that as it may. Perhaps using this persona you have cast me as will get you some readers, I do not know. Sadly, my website probably has as small, if not smaller, a readership than yours. I keep developing it so that important bits of history do not disappear forever down the black hole. Our pathetic educational system, especially in the realm of history, is a farce, fit only to turn out automatons, clerks and soldiers, that question nothing, that think nothing, that live to serve and obey, taking pleasure only in pop culture, substance abuse and loveless sex. Even now there are very few people interested in historical data or the way history has shaped the present. Most Americans are already subdued and live merely for the next ball game, the next night out, the next lay, the next episode of Desperate Housewives. At this point I may as well join them. At least I keep my eye on what’s happening and will know when to “get out of Dodge” as I am sure there is a train wreck in America’s future, and I don’t intend to be on it when it does.


NOTES
[1] A maverick faculty member. Some of my attacks on the UMass-Boston administration are linked to at:
URL: http://site.www.umb.edu/faculty/salzman_g/Anarch/2004-02-07.htm .
URL: http://site.www.umb.edu/faculty/salzman_g/Freda/index.htm .
URL: http://site.www.umb.edu/faculty/salzman_g/Greed/index.htm .
      Over the years my pay lagged behind those of more pliant faculty, who were rewarded for their lack of courage in accepting the misbehavior of their administrative “superiors”. I was regularly denied “merit increases”. Naturally.

[2] Raul Hilberg, The Destruction of the European Jews, 1985, Holmes & Meier Publishers, New York & London.


George Salzman is a former American Jew living in Oaxaca, Mexico, an Emeritus Prof of Physics, Univ of Massachusetts-Boston.
All comments and criticisms are welcome.  <georgeisalzman@yahoo.com>

      If you know folks who want to ‘save the world’, starting with global open communication — no censorship, I’ll be glad to add them to my Notes of an anarchist physicist listserv [noaap]. To subscribe write me, including your first and last names, please, or send a blank e-mail to noaap-subscribe@lists.riseup.net.

*     *     *
Return to the latest postings page of website II,
      at http://site.www.umb.edu/faculty/salzman_g/s/01.htm
Return to the home page of website II,
      at http://site.www.umb.edu/faculty/salzman_g/s/00.htm

Initial posting of this page: 26 August 2010.
Last update: 27 August 2010